Ansky

Even without Ahead of the Curve, we, as a guild, should kill H Imperator before we go into any more Mythic. It's still progression. Half the raiders don't even have an Imperator kill in general. Saying "show up on an optional night if you want to kill the last boss in the current raid tier even though you only signed up to do Tue/Wed" or "go pug it" is ridiculous. It's too late to do Normal Imperator because no one (important) cared after the optional group got him down, and that's what's going to happen to Heroic Imperator if (and when) the optional group gets him down. He'll be put on the back burner because "progression". Hell, he's -already- on the back burner. Are we really going to go clear heroic Highmaul and kill him when we're in heroic Foundry? Like really really? No, we're not, for the same reasons we're not doing normal now. And the non-optional raiders get the short end of the stick.

If it's on a raid night (like an officer sanctioned guild fun thing) I would be more than happy to do so.

Going to be late because it's been 45 minutes and our food is still not here. My kids are about to pass out at the table and were about to get up and leave to go somewhere else.

Birthday party, might be late.

Have reservations for our anniversary at 630, will probably be home around 8-9 server time.

 

Core raiders were expecting preferential treatment (sitting all bosses they didn't want to do, staying in on boss attempts after repeated failures. Personally I would prefer and more selective guild application and trial period and then raider ranks for all.

To be fair, it's already happening regardless of having the rank with the same people who would be in that rank. But yes, I would also be good without all the extra hoopla of ranks.

At this point I agree entirely. The whole point of core raider experiment was to modify the rank to try to make people more accountable and increase raid awareness. Before the changes, progression was get in the guild, stay in the guild a little longer and get raider, stay in the guild some more time past that and get core raider. Before these changes we had people who felt entitled to raid spots or get in on certain bosses because they were core raider and core raider had no accountability aside from punctuality.

Having a Core Raider as just a step up from Raider and based on seniority would be more appropriate. Like Raider, it would have basic requirements, for example six months in the guild and 80% attendance, and it would give that fine line between who is core and who is not. Yes, there will be many, but it would also give new people something to goal towards. And it wouldn't cause drama because there is no competition.

3 weeks ago we had the edgeworth drama, sha of pride wager and drama, jordan peacing on protectors, and the iron juggernaut weapon/dkp drama.

And before that it was all the ugarg drama and before that we weren't even having people show up for raids (without posting) and it looked like we weren't going to ever down protectors.

Guilds will always have some kind of drama. The officers have done a good job at keeping the guild together through it. I just don't see core raider stuff being anything but extra drama without actually benefiting the raid.

 

An idea of Core Raider was to have a Core set that didn't need to sit, pee, eat, or move a couch, and could be relied upon in all but the most dire requests. The idea of a limited group does sound good, allowing Raiders, Core Raiders, Officers+ (Active Raiders) to vote and choose the "Top ##" could work. Remove the weekly rotation + promo, only the core group can retire someone from there rank, then the Active Raiders would vote on the replacement. Reset the entire Core Group every Tier and let the Active Raiders choose the core.

 

I'm good with keeping the gold benefit currently as it's small, but nothing other then the rank+ should be given. The idea would be that "Core Raiders" choosen by the Active Raiders would be the best in all logical means. A sort of buffer to the officers for non officer tasks.

So have 9 Core Raiders chosen by Raiders to receive rank, some extra repair gold, and the power to remove each other from the rank.

I guess I don't understand the point. It sounds unnesessary. I can only see this causing drama between Raiders and Core Raiders, and if Core Raiders choose to kick someone for one reason or another, that someone will undoubtedly gquit. We don't even kick people from the raid because that's not how we do things. This will be the epitome of shit sturring imo. No guild needs to initiate drama, and this can only end up with hurt feelings and gquits. Not to mention, we're all human so we're all automatically disqualified haha.

If it aint broke, don't fix it. Our guild was doing just fine 3 weeks ago. =\

I do want to add that I like the idea of having a rank for exceptional players who know their class and top the meters as well as good attendance and willingness to help others. Those who recruits and raiders can come to for help. No more than one person of each class/spec but also not people of a class just because they're only ones in the guild. They would have to be exceptional and want the position. With the extra responsibilities of being available for help, they will get the extra benefits that core raider rank got and the bragging rights which gives those who care incentive to get better. Maybe call it something like Master Raider with class/spec in the comment. Just an idea.

From what Varlash has been saying, I keep getting that Core Raider = exceptional player. One who knows the class, tops the meters, and is always on time and prepared. That is the mindset of a hardcore guild. The -core- of this guild are the raiders who show up every week and stay through the wipes and improve every wipe until we kill the boss. That is OUR core. We all know who they are, we see them every raid night. That's why the Core Raider rank to good players versus good raiders will not work for this guild. People will feel hurt because they put in the time but because they're not great they don't get the recognition. I can't think of one person who fits ALL the criteria you listed. And, If we recruit great players that fit the criteria they will leave once they realize just how casual the rest of us are, and that's what has happened already with those who joined in the past few months.

 

Also the only thing that makes us a "casual" guild is that fact people keep saying it. We are a 25ma Hardmode raiding guild [...]

We are? We barely got 2 heroics in MSV and TOT. The only reason we're where we are now is because we have the time and the people willing to raid. This is the perspective of raiders that needs to be addressed. I don't mind being a "hardmode raiding guild" for what it is, but you said it yourself, we are not on the same page.

 

And yes you can compair putting herbs in the guild bank to not hindering the group, one makes you a good raider, the other a good guild member.

There are plenty of people who are casual players who don't usually log in besides raiding. I'm one of them. They rely on the guild bank to provide flasks. Not having flasks does hinder the group's performance. A member who doesn't raid doesn't have any reason to drop herbs in the GB. A raider who specifically does it to help out the group does. It's like Ninja said last night, she had a spot in the raid before because she went out of her way to get the mats and fish feasts when others wouldn't. That takes time and dedication, and it does make you a core raider.

I think if you really want to have a Raider vs Core Raider, Core Raider should be people who have proven to be part of the team through the amount of time they have been in the guild and the amount of raiding they have done with us while Raider should be mostly new people and casuals. I understand it was meant as incentive to step up your game with all the requirements but that just won't work imo. You can't compare not dying to mechanics to showing up for raid to dropping 10k worth of herbs in the guild bank. We all work together to make shit happen. The core is the core and we all know who we see in the raid every week. 

There is one major problem I see with core raider atm.

This guild is and has been since I've joined it, a casual guild. Yes, we do good progression, but we also bring people in who have been in the guild for a long time and have been raiders for a long time who do end up dying almost every fight to mechanics and we don't really care because it's atmosphere first. It's what makes this guild such a great environment.

Remember when we were telling people who apped before the merger that we probably won't get past 2-4 heroic bosses before going on break and letting our 10man take over? Now since the server merger and we've gotten many raiders and we've tasted our share of heroics (holy shit 8/14???) we're slowly losing that casual atmosphere and great environment. Is that nessessarily a bad thing? Depends on who you ask. What do we want from the guild in the next 6 months before the xpack? That's something we should be asking. 

TLDR: The core raider system forgoes our long-time standing raiders and that's a big issue in a casual guild. And then, when someone does get core raider who for example dies to mechanics all the time but is always there and ready, people get angry that that person didn't deserve it. There is no winning when there are "requirements".

Do I know how to fix it? No. But the current system only hurts the feelings of people who make this guild what it is. So that's my 2c.

Aw but they're so cute!

Last attempt of the night ftw.

Never mind, it's tomorrow. Maybe I should go back since I apparently can't read a calendar.

Have a kindergarden orientation thingy 630-730 so probably won't be on until 8.

Taking the kids to see Despicable Me 2 at 6 so might be a little late getting on.

Not so little anymore huh

My son's preschool graduation is at 7 but it's just a few minutes away so I might be on at 8 or a little later.

1. Make sure the website info is up to date and easy for newbies to use/apply etc. This is our advertisement; a good site will make people want to look longer & be more likely to apply. We should post some screenshots of kills; a new one should go up every time we kill a boss. Putting up some kill videos are always good too for people to watch.

I agree for both of these. I've had people tell me they had issues registering with it not accepting their email (I did too until I just used FB). Not sure if it's a bug or what. I do think we need more kill shots.

Just wanted to say, some potential recruits on the forums are turning away after seeing this thread. Maybe make it so only members can see it? Or do we not want to recruit until we figure this out?

I've been checking this thread and thinking about this all day, and I think I'm more angry at Blizz for making transfers such a pain and killing off our server with killing 25man raiding. If I'm one of two, transferring isn't completely out of the question, but we really do need to make sure we go to a server that needs a casual 2 day 25 man. Instead of leveling new chars I'd say go to a prospective server and ask in trade and on the forums about if anyone is interested in joining. If there is interest, we can go from there. Log on during peak times to make sure there's no que times. My preference is Normal over PVP.

Addendum: I think that the server isn't the issue. The issue is that Bash is the only person who does recruiting, and he can only do it so long before he gets worn out. Me taking a break and causing him to have to raid lead as well surely isn't helping his motivation to put in all the extra time needed to recruit.

We need more people to step up and help out with recruiting.

I -honestly- did not think we had an issue with recruiting because any time Bash said anything over mumble it was, "if you have any friends, ask them to join". To me, that said "ask your friends to fill in our currently missing spots until our main raiders come back" not "we must recruit more people regardless of familiar status or we're going to transfer off the server". If I knew we needed actual recruiting help, I would have stepped in a long time ago, but we've had enough every raid night by 8 so I didn't realize it was that much of an issue.

That said, last night people seemed pretty excited about a transfer. =\ I can't help feeling like it's going to divide the guild.