Sazda

how's that our fault.... you guys bid what you thought it would take to win it, and you got charged what you bid.... seems like the system is working as intended.

You are either just trying to argue against me (seems to be a favorite thing of yours), ignoring the facts or simply not understanding my point here.

I will try to make it more clear for you bash:

If Unholy had bid 50 DKP for his item last night, he would still have paid 11 DKP for it, because not one other person bid on it. It was one item with one interested taker.

Before that, we had two items for two interested takers. However, we had to pay more than the min bid - because either your interpretation of the system was wrong or the system itself was simply flawed.

So the underlying question is:

Why did Lamps and me have to overpay for our items while other people did not?

Not sure how else I could explain this so you understand.

how much you spent on the belt isn't our fault, that's completely on you, we didn't force you to bid high and "pay to much" you payed exactly what you thought the belt was worth to you.

uhm... wrong?

read again:

2) If one item drops and one person bids for it - that person should pay the min amount of dkp (by the old system). If two items drop and only two persons bid on it - they AS WELL should pay the min amount of dkp. It makes no sense that if two items drop for two people, that they pay more than if one item drops for one person. (example: Unholy paid min dkp for his item tonight, lamps and me paid more for our belts although noone else bid on it). We really should get our 5 or whatever DKP it was back, since this seems like a flaw in the system.

DKP systems are nice because it puts all the power in the hands of the raider with the DKP, if you really want an item , you will dump a lot of DKP on it

Exactly, it puts the power in the hands of the raider... never a good idea!

That is all fine, but it still does not answer my problem.

So I got screwed out of the pants by the officers last night and I paid too much for my belt.

DKP systems (mostly) suck ass... and no offense, but the new one does even more than the old one imo

Some of the officers mentioned changes in dkp system for this week/tomorrow already. However, here are two problems I had tonight:

1) I guess everyone already talked about it - changing loot rules and not announcing it is just plain wrong. You should have reversed the loot decision and give it to the person that earned it according to the rules. That, however, I am sure is fixed now and will not happen again. I am in favor of the "get as many items as you like per boss" rule.

2) If one item drops and one person bids for it - that person should pay the min amount of dkp (by the old system). If two items drop and only two persons bid on it - they AS WELL should pay the min amount of dkp. It makes no sense that if two items drop for two people, that they pay more than if one item drops for one person. (example: Unholy paid min dkp for his item tonight, lamps and me paid more for our belts although noone else bid on it). We really should get our 5 or whatever DKP it was back, since this seems like a flaw in the system.

Bottom line is this:

The system as it is now works pretty well. I agree with the change of going to "get as many items as you have dkp for". ALL you need to do now is to change the wording of the loot rules to following:

"The winner(s) of an item pay the amount of the highest NON-WINNING bid (inlcuding min bid)."

So what that means is that if two items drop, the two winners pay A) THE SAME AMOUNT FOR THE SAME ITEM and as much as the third highest bid was +1. Going to a system where you pay a different amount of DKP for the very same item at the very same time seems pretty stupid to me.

i added your thoughts/points to the first post to keep it all in one spot

Phase 1

- have ranged DPS and healers stack near the outside of the inner ring to make healing easier as well as resetting the debuff when needed

- you can easily stay inside the bubble until you have 10+ stacks. There is no need to go outside very often.

- HOW TO RESET THE DEBUFF FOR RANGED AND HEALERS:

-) before the fight starts, go into the inner ring and back up. There will be a point where jumping (and thus getting out of the bubble) will reset your stacks. That is where you want to be in the beginning of the fight.

- being on the inner ring gives you 50% increased healing received AND 50% damage done buff - it is very beneficial to be in that ring

- for ranged: when we call for ranged to switch to the big add (Celestial Protector), try to stay on the inner ring as long as possible. Before he does his huge arcane damage that will kill you if you have too many stacks, he will cast Total Annihilation (4 second cast). Just reset your stacks during that cast and you will be fine.

- for tanks: switch boss more often (off take take big add) to reduce big damage spikes and make healing more predictable

- rins and repeat

Phase 2

This is all about killing the 6 Energy Charges that are slowly moving to the outside of the inner ring. Our goal is to kill at least 3 waves (5 would be great) like this (and DPS boss in between). If it turns out that we do not have enough DPS to kill a certain wave, we should not DPS it at all and do all the DPS to Elegon instead.

- spread out on your assigned side, know where the other DPS are and hit the target that your melee group members are not close to

- while doing that, make sure you are in the inner ring for the 50% DPS buff

- as soon as an add hits its target, GET OUT OF THE INNER RING - the floor will disappear shortly

Phase 3

- misdirect adds to your tank

- have groups go around the room in a way that they end up at the same spot for better add AOE

Rest we will have to see once we get some more practice on it... in terms of how to move in what direction etc.

TBD...

i think i explained wol above, its super easy and very fast to set up

not a lot:

1) go to worldoflogs.com and start the client (no need to download, just start it online "open with")

2) then click on "start a live report session"

3) ingame you type "/combatlog"

done

For a more detailed description:

http://worldoflogs.com/help/client/

The one thing I don't want to do with this raid is steal away people the 25m needs, (and this comment is not at all directed at anyone, just having this brought up i should've added it to the original post), you guys already have a your group set and I see no reason for this group to throw that off at all. That being said, i am hoping this will end up being a competent 10m raid as well

You do not need to worry about that. I believe most (all?) players in the 25m are there because they prefer 25m raiding over 10m.

In my case, I really do not want to commit to 3 raid nights a week and the 25m is currently deciding whether that is the move they want to do. If that happens, I would rather go 10m and get to stay in this guild than find another guild that raids twice a week.

Good luck with the idea though - I hope it works out great for you and the whole guild

If the 25m main raid decides to go full 3 raid days I will be interested in joining you guys instead

This is basically a summary from the strategy on the icy-veins website. You can find the complete post here:

http://icy-veins.com/gara-jal-the-spiritbinder-detailed-strategy-wow

Disclaimer: Please also keep in mind, that we might end up changing certain strategic ideas to benefit our specific raid comp better. I still advise to read through this and get an idea of what the fight is about and what you might have to look out for.

Overview: 1-phase fight with a hard 6 minute enrage timer. There also is a soft enrage timer that comes into play once the boss gets below 21% HP. This already answers the question about when to use BloodLust: When the boss is just below 20% HP. This boss needs quite some DPS in order to not wipe to the enrage. There is a way to increase the boss DPS of a few selected players significantly, but let us go over the fight first.

For most of the raid, this fight will have no adds. There is also not a whole lot of movement (almost none) for the bigger part of the raid. The whole encounter is A) a strategy check a slightly easier tank check than the bosses before.

Tanks:

Not much needed to say, I am sure you guys have already looked this up. Most important thing you guys have to work wit his Banishment and taunting at the right time. When you are in the Spirit World, you have to kill one single mob - should not be a problem.

Healers:

1) Voodoo Dolls is the one thing you need to look out for. Basically, it turns 3 raid members and the current tank into Voodoo Dolls of each other - so every damage anyone of them takes is also taken by the other Voodoo Dolls (except of course the transferred damage). I suppose tanks will swap as soon as this was cast, if not: this will require some intensive healing.

2) Spirit World. Players who get in in will drop to 30% HP. They will need to be healed up to 100% in order for them to be able to leave the Spirit World. They can also only stay inside of it for a maximum of 30s (or they die). That is a lot of time to heal them up, BUT sometimes we will want specific players to leave the Spirit World as early as possible. This will require you to heal these people up to 100% ASAP once they get into the Spirit World (one of you will go into the Spirit World with them in order to be able to heal there).

3) When the boss hits 20%, he gets a Frenzy effect. On top of that, players cannot go into the Spirit World anymore (where they kill adds), so these adds will do more and more raid damage. Make sure you have a lot of mana and cooldowns up for that last 20% part. I am sure Tourin will tell you when to use what anyways.

Another note about Spirit World: When you are inside, for one you get a big increase in Haste (that buff lasts for 30s, even when you leave the Spirit World), and you also have a very high mana regeneration. Within those 30s, your mana should be pretty much at 100% again even if you were low before.

Setup

We will likely need 3 groups consisting of 1 healer and 2 DPS. When the boss places his totems on the ground, one of these groups has to get within 6 yards of that totem - kill it - and then they get into the spirit world. Totems have low HP, so make sure to have your group there before killing it.

We will also need backups (the raidleads will do all that before raid), because the Voodoo Dolls effect will prevent you from entering the Spirit World.

Again: Keep in mind you have to exit the Spirit World within 30s of entering it. Kill as many adds as you can during that time. You will have an ExtraActionButton come up once you get healed to 100% that will allow you to exit the world.

DPS

When you are in the Spirit World, your primary focus is to kill adds. ALSO please interrupt any casts that you see, because it will greatly help our healers. Hunters for example should spec into Silencing Shot for that, rather than Wyvern Sting. Know your class and do what you can do execute interrupts.

Other than that, it is mostly a DPS race for everyone. Make sure you all have a MOP (!!!!) flask, gems and MOP (!!!!) enchants on your gear. Most of the other stuff in the raid will only concern very few people, so it is not worth noting it here.

Let's do this

great to see another class having these threads *clap*

i have one level 80 - resto druid.. not sure though if he will stay at that level for so many weeks though

well, you could just start a "no dkp sunday 25m" raid and use the ingame calender for that... it will be easy to see by saturday night how many people have confirmed that they are coming and invite friends/randoms to fill it up if we are any close to it being full

Here is our current BiS gear (for BM, but i guess its no big difference to other specs if any at all):

Head

Crest of the Grand Warband

http://www.wowdb.com/items/90413

Stats: 983 Agi, Meta & Yellow Socket, 180 Agi bonus, Hit & Crit

Source: Galleon Worldboss

Necklace

Amulet of the Hidden Kings

http://www.wowdb.com/items/87045

Stats: 720 Agi, Haste & Expertise

Source: Spirit Kings, MoVaults Heroic

Shoulders

Windwalker Spaulders

http://www.wowdb.com/items/89344

Stats: 771 Agi, Yellow Socket, 60 Agi Bonus, Hit & Haste

Source: 1750 Valor Points Golden Lotus Revered

Back

Arrow Breaking Windcloak

http://www.wowdb.com/items/87044

Stats: 720 Agi, Expertise & Haste

Source: Feng or Spirit Kings, MoVaults Heroic

Chest

Stonefang Chestguard

http://www.wowdb.com/items/89929

Stats: 1134 Agi, Red & Yellow Socket, 120 Agi Bonus, Crit & Expertise

Source: Stone Guard, MoVaults Heroic

Wrists

Stonemaw Armguards

http://www.wowdb.com/items/87014

Stats: 720 Agi, Crit & Haste

Source: Stone Guard, MoVaults Heroic

Hands

Yaungol Slayer's Gloves (Set Piece)

http://www.wowdb.com/items/85297

Stats: 909 Agi, Crit & Hit

Source: Sha of Anger, Kun-Lai

Waist

Fetters of Death

http://www.wowdb.com/items/87034

Stats: 801 Agi, Yellow & Blue Socket, 120 Hit Bonus, Mastery & Hit

Source: Gara'jal, MoVaults Heroic

Legs

Yaungol Slaer's Legguards (Set Piece)

http://www.wowdb.com/items/85295

Stats: 1143 Agi, Red Socket, 60 Agi Bonus, Hit & Haste

Source: Sha of Anger, Kun-Lai

Feet

Wildfire Worldwalkers

http://www.wowdb.com/items/85980

Stats: 771 Agi, Yellow Socket, 60 Crit Bonus, Crit & Expertise

Source: Feng, MoVaults Heroic

Ring(s)

Hereditary Saurok Loop (apparently NOT unique-equipped)

http://www.wowdb.com/items/90437

Stats: 682 Agi, Haste & Hit

Source: Galleon Worldboss

Trinket #1

Relic of Xuen

http://www.wowdb.com/items/79328

Stats: 956 Agi, on crit chance to gain 3027 Agi for 15s

Source: Darkmoon Faire Tiger Card Set

Trinket #2

Bottle of Infinite Springs

http://www.wowdb.com/items/87057

Stats: 1218 Mastery, on hit chance to gain 3653 Agi for 20 s

Source: Elegon, MoVaults Heroic

Weapon

Fang Kung, Spark of Titans

http://www.wowdb.com/items/87069

Stats: 4725.1 DPS, 1294 Agi, Crit & Expertise

Source: Spirit Kings, MoVaults Heroic

And here is a list of gear that is much easier to obtain and gets you as close to BiS as possible:

Head:

1) 489 from revered Shado-Pan

2) 489 from Will of the Emperor, MoVaults

3) 476 from Will of Emperor RF, MoVaults

4) 476 from Engineering 600

Necklace:

1) 496 Hellrider's Choker from Galleon Worldboss

2) 489 from revered Klaxxi

3) 489 from exalted Golden Lotus

4) 489 from several bosses MoVaults

5) 476 from several bosses MoVaults RF

Shoulders:

There does not seem to be any other option between 463 heroic shoulders and BiS 489 from revered with Golden Lotus currently

Cloak:

1) 489 from revered with Shado-Pan

2) 489 from several bosses MoVaults

3) 476 from several bosses MoVaults RF

Chest:

1) 496 crafted by LW (once the pattern drops in Vaults I can do these)

2) 496 from Galleon Worldboss (almost as good as the LW ones)

3) 489 from Stoneguard, MoVaults

4) 489 from revered with Shado-Pan

5) 476 RF

6) 476 crafted by LW (I can make em)

Wrists:

1) 489 from Stoneguard, MoVaults (tiniest bit better than 2) )

2) 489 from honored with August Celestials

3) 476 RF

Hands:

1) 496 from Sha of Anger (Set Piece)

2) 496 crafted by LW (once pattern drops)

3) 489 from revered with August Celestials

4) 489 from Vaults

5) 476 from RF

6) 476 crafted by LW (i can make em)

Waist:

1) 496 from Galleon Worldboss

2) 489 from Gara'jai, MoVaults

3) 489 from revered with Klaxxi

4) 476 from RF

Legs:

1) 489 from MoVaults

2) 489 from revered with Klaxxi

3) 476 from RF

Feet:

1) 496 from Galleon Worldboss

2) 489 from Feng, MoVaults

3) 489 from revered with August Celestials

4) 476 from RF (better than your current 476 boots)

Ring:

1) 489 from questline once you got Klaxxi Exalted

2) 489 from Feng, MoVaults

3) 489 from honored Golden Lotus

4) 476 from RF

Trinket:

1) 489 from revered with Shado-Pan (I believe the 463 trinket "Searing Words" is better than this one)

2) 489 from Elegon, MoVaults

3) 476 from RF

Weapon:

1) 489 from MoVaults

2) 476 rare drop from Gate of Setting Sun heroic dungeon

3) 476 from RF

what? Since when?

necro said he tried and it told him that it doesnt work since he was started in 25 - ask him

cannot go 10man if you downed a 25man boss

lol

oh wow - not too bad numbers for some of us.. i ended up at almost 99% for BM... and that in 463 gear at the time

not to be a complete ass right now, but 1) you pulled 65k on recount - which usually equates to something like 5x k on wol (we shall test it next week my friend) and 2) you play SV - noone does that anymore

Anyways - you know how i feel about your performance (*thumbs up*) and I am very happy to have another hunter here that I can race against... well, once my gear catches up to your level. ;-)

seriously? who does not have perky by now? (or any of the others)

i still do not understand why you want to have 4 tanks for this one.... you only will have 3 tanking positions in 25man - the 4th tank will just stand around in case someone dies?

I do not think this was ever mentioned in our first raid:

• White Floor Tiles — These tiles absorb the energy from Living Amethyst, Living Cobalt, Living Jade, and Living Jasper when a player stands on them. Each tile can absorb one charge of energy. For each energized tile in the room, the raid gains a stack of Energized Tiles.
  
  • Energized Tiles — The energy of the living stone flows through the room tiles, empowering players. Each stack increases damage dealt by 1%.
    

  [*]Living Amethyst Crystal — The energy that powers the Amethyst Guardian forms into a crystal. Players who interact with this crystal will be afflicted with the Living Amethyst effect.

  • Living Amethyst — 5 charges of the energy that animates the Amethyst Guardian tear though your body. Each charge inflicts 13000 Shadow damage every 1 sec. Charges of this energy can be drained into white floor tiles to energize them.
    

  [*]Living Cobalt Crystal — The energy that powers the Cobalt Guardian forms into a crystal. Players who interact with this crystal will be afflicted with the Living Cobalt effect.

  • Living Cobalt — 5 charges of the energy that animates the Cobalt Guardian tear though your body. Each charge inflicts 13000 Arcane damage every 1 sec. Charges of this energy can be drained into white floor tiles to energize them.
    

  [*]Living Jade Crystal — The energy that powers the Jade Guardian forms into a crystal. Players who interact with this crystal will be afflicted with the Living Jade effect.

  • Living Jade — 5 charges of the energy that animates the Jade Guardian tear though your body. Each charge inflicts 13000 Nature damage every 1 sec. Charges of this energy can be drained into white floor tiles to energize them.
    

  [*]Living Jasper Crystal — The energy that powers the Jasper Guardian forms into a crystal. Players who interact with this crystal will be afflicted with the Living Jasper effect.

  • Living Jasper — 5 charges of the energy that animates the Jasper Guardian tear though your body. Each charge inflicts 13000 Fire damage every 1 sec. Charges of this energy can be drained into white floor tiles to energize them.
    

it also seems worth mentioning HOW the chains work exactly (see bold part):

Jasper Chains is cast by the Jasper Guardian. It links two random raid members together (indicated graphically by chains). If the two players are more than 10 yards apart from one another, the chains deal Fire damage to them every second. The damage is increased by 15% (10% in LFR) for each second that the two players are more than 10 yards apart, and being more than 10 yards apart for 15 seconds removes the chains. Note that this effect is cumulative, meaning that you do not need to be apart for 15 continuous seconds; for each second that you are apart you get a stack of an otherwise harmless debuff, and at 15 stacks the chains are broken. The spell is cast roughly every 10 seconds.

and since we are such a casual guild - we might as well have some fun and go for the first new raid tier achievement as well:

http://www.wowdb.com/achievements/6823

All we need to do is have ALL our raid members take out a non-combat pet during our kill - like:

• 
  
  • Perky Pug (easily obtained as a reward for completing roughly 25 heroic dungeon through the Dungeon Finder Tool);
    
  • Core Hound Pup (obtained by anyone who attaches a Blizzard Authenticator to their account);
    
  • Curious Wolvar Pup (a reward from the Children's Week world event);
    
  • Worg Carrier (a drop from Quartermaster Zigris in Blackrock Spire);
    
  • Fox Kit (small drop chance from Baradin Foxes in Tol Barad Peninsula).
    

too many hunters!

Also: Since Duckmarker went half-random last week, he is already 476 ilvl with 3/6 vaults normal (get him in)